Meet the Press 

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

… And welcome back to the program, Martin Ferguson. Good morning.

MINISTER FERGUSON:

Good morning, Paul.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

Just going to those reports on Malcolm Turnbull, you've been around the Labor Party a long time. Are you surprised by those reports?

MINISTER FERGUSON:

I'm absolutely surprised. You know, it was only a matter of a short period ago he was shopping around trying to find a Labor Party seat. You know, what does he really believe in? I think that's going to be a question at the Liberal Party caucus this morning and perhaps more importantly a major question in the mind of the Australian community. How can you believe this bloke? What's he stand for? Where's he going? It really looks as if he was shopping around for the best available opportunity for himself, not Australia as a nation nor the Liberal Party.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

Well, he says Labor approached him.

MINISTER FERGUSON:

Well, that's for Malcolm to suggest. All the reports are today it was Malcolm who approached the Labor Party. Not one representative of the Labor Party but senior Labor Party figures across the field, basically saying, "I'm out there. I'm a gun for hire. Really, if you want me in the Labor Party, I'll say what you want me to say. Alternatively, I can go to the Liberal Party." And that's what's going to be in the mind of the Liberal Party caucus today - you know, what have we ended up with as a leader? Where are we going? Perhaps more importantly, what's going to cross their mind is how can the Australian community ever believe what Malcolm Turnbull says in the lead-up to a key election, but perhaps more importantly, some key debates such as in the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme?

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

It looks like the Labor Party wants to finish him off.

MINISTER FERGUSON:

I think Malcolm will finish himself off. It's not for the Labor Party to worry about those issues. We'll just get on with doing what's the right thing by Australia - confronting the global financial crisis, doing everything we can to minimise unemployment whilst also making progressive decisions about how we manage the environment, how we set up the Australian economy by investing in skills and infrastructure for the future.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

The other story that's around today is that oil spill off the coast of Western Australia. As Energy Minister, have you got any latest news on that?

MINISTER FERGUSON:

The oil spill is not as big as first thought. It's on the Montara oil field. The Maritime Safety Authority is on the job. They're in charge of the clean-up and the company itself has flown in the necessary technical advice to work out how they cap the well as quickly as possible.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

So there's no threat to the Australian coast?

MINISTER FERGUSON:

There is no threat to the Australian coast and, perhaps more importantly, it is evaporating naturally and the work of the Australian Maritime Safety Authority will merely assist in that evaporation.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

Going to that massive Gorgon gas deal, environmentalists still have a lot of concerns and this oil spill - even though it looks like it may be contained - reinforces those fears. Can you assure the Australian public that we're not going to put our environment up for grabs?

MINISTER FERGUSON:

Look, there's no way the environment is at risk. Perhaps more importantly, I remind you the environmental considerations are not my considerations as the Minister for Energy and Resources. It is an entirely separate process in the hands of the Minister for the Environment, Peter Garrett, and he will make a decision in due course. My responsibility is to work with government at a State level and businesses to set up the projects.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

It can't be a serious proposition that at this time when you've gone to Beijing, the Prime Minister's raised it in the Parliament, that Peter Garrett could do anything else except give it a tick.

MINISTER FERGUSON:

These environmental processes don't occur overnight. They have occurred over an extended period and Pete has been involved in deliberate consideration of these matters at arm's-length over an extended period. They will make a determination in due course but a hell of a lot of work has been done environmentally and from a development perspective to get the project to this point.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

So there'll be no last-minute veto from the Environment Minister?

MINISTER FERGUSON:

That's a matter for Peter to determine, not me.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

Well, Minister, the Communist Party's mouthpiece, the 'China Daily', says Australia has only itself to blame for souring relations. It says our Sino-phobic politicians are leading an international anti-China chorus.

SHADOW TREASURER
JOE HOCKEY:

(Wednesday) At first Kevin Rudd was fawning all over the Chinese Government and now the Chinese Government has grown impatient with the little dog that yaps.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

It was a terrific deal, but we have no photographic evidence that you witnessed the signing. They obviously are pretty PO'd with us, aren't they?

MINISTER FERGUSON:

I'm told it was on the all the televisions here in Australia on Wednesday evening. I was a guest of ExxonMobil and PetroChina. There was a $50 billion export deal signed on behalf of ExxonMobil and PetroChina. $50 billion exports for Australia - potentially a project worth $50 billion of investment. If China is not open for business with Australia, then I don't know what is going on up there.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

Well, open for business, but obviously very unhappy with us. This has potential for damaging us down the track.

MINISTER FERGUSON:

In terms of our relationship with China, it's business as usual. We are a resources and energy-rich nation. China wants to do business with us but, look, in any diplomatic relationship there are going to be tensions from time to time. As the Prime Minister said, for example, with respect to Mrs Kadeer this week, "We will determine who comes to Australia." We're not going to be told by China or any other nation how we conduct ourselves from time to time with respect to those issues. That is going to mean tension but it's also a maturity of the relationship that we can have those tensions and get on with our commercial activities.

PAUL BIORGIORNO:

Well, in light of the affront, really, that Beijing took to us, maybe we should rethink on whether the Dalai Lama should get a visa?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

Not at all. The Dalai Lama has been here in the past. If he applies for a visa, he'll be granted again. The Prime Minister has met him in the past, as, I might say, has the former Prime Minister John Howard and the former Minister for Foreign Affairs Alexander Downer.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

After the break when we're joined by the panel - are big polluters the big winners out of the Government's climate change compromises? And rivalry between the minor parties is every bit as fierce as the slug-fest between the big boys and girls.

FAMILY FIRST SENATOR
STEVE FIELDING:

(Thursday) I think the Nationals should probably consider joining Family First because, frankly, they're not comfortable with the Liberal Party. That Coalition is just a sham.

NATIONALS SENATOR
BARNABY JOYCE:

(Thursday) What I like about Family First is that even though they've got one member sometimes they've got two positions so there's a place in there for all of us.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

You're on 'Meet the Press' with Energy Minister Martin Ferguson, and welcome to our panel, Alison Carabine, ABC Radio National 'Breakfast'. Good morning, Alison.

ABC RADIO NATIONAL'S
ALISON CARABINE:

Good morning, Paul.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

And Peter Hartcher from the 'Sydney Morning Herald'. Good morning, Peter.

THE 'SYDNEY MORNING
HERALD'S PETER
HARTCHER:

G'day, Paul.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

The Greens described Thursday as a big day for polluters. Though they voted for the 20% renewable energy target, they say too much ground was given to the big polluters and fear the same will happen in negotiations over emissions trading.

SHADOW ENVIRONMENT
MINISTER GREG HUNT:

(Wednesday) All of the key things that we really wanted to meet have been dealt with.

OPPOSITION SPOKESMAN
ANDREW ROBB:

(Wednesday) I think if we could now implore the Government to apply the same common sense to the negotiation of an Emissions Trading Scheme, you know, I think we can move forward.

ALISON CARABINE:

Well, Minister, the Government has had to agree to more compensation for polluters to cut a deal on the renewable energy target. It seems almost certain that you will also have to boost the compo arrangements for industry to get your emissions trading legislation through the Parliament. It does seem that polluters will be under very little price pressure to reduce their carbon output. Doesn't that make the whole exercise rather pointless?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

I don't accept that argument at all. As Minister for Energy, I know the potential impact because of the operation of electricity generators. This is a very fine balancing act - a price on carbon which means we make change environmentally, whilst keeping jobs in Australia. It's not about lining the pockets of big business. It's about making real progress and when it comes to real progress, renewable energy legislation of this week is a major stimulus package for the Australian economy. It means that by 2020, we have got 20% of our energy supply coming from renewable energy. That is going to be a major challenge to us as a nation.

ALISON CARABINE:

Well, with regards to what you say is a major challenge, you now have the legislation through Parliament to source 20% of electricity generation from renewables, but you did recently say that clean, affordable base load power from solar and wind sources will be several years away. So is the 2020 target achievable?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

Look, there's going to be huge growth in wind power. Where the Government is focused on is actually technological change to actually get in place solar thermal, geothermal and wave power as base load power. We've not only got a renewable energy target, we've got a clean energy strategy - for example, $1.4 billion on solar flagships and also over half a billion in terms of trying to develop the technology such as storage capacity for solar thermal or geothermal. You know, technology created this problem. Technology will be the solution. We're absolutely committed, not just to a target, but bringing on all sectors of the renewable energy community.

PETER HARTCHER:

Mr Ferguson, the Government is demanding that the Opposition vote for the ETS bill, but at the same time, the treatment of the coal producers has been left hanging. There have been talks going on for months. There's a Government $750 million compensation offer on the table and it seems to be stalled. What do you do with this sector? Do you increase the offer of compensation or do you railroad Australia's biggest export sector?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

Look, the Minister for Climate Change, Penny Wong, has and continues to be involved in discussions with the Assistant Minister Greg Combet. We're now staring at a further discussion in the Senate and as a result of the renewable energy legislation this week, the Coalition has signed up the ETS assistance package under renewable energy legislation because it's linked to the CPRS. Between now and the final Senate debate we've said to the Opposition, "Put your amendments on the table in a practical way and sit down and negotiate. Then we'll seek to work our way through these issues, in the same way in which we're seeking to finalise our consideration of a range of other industries because of proper requirements to actually assess them under the proposals."

PETER HARTCHER:

So by the time this comes to the Senate for the next vote, you can guarantee there'll be an agreement with the coal sector?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

What I'm suggesting is that there has been and will continue to be further discussions with a number of industry sectors. But it's also about the Opposition - if they are serious about this - putting their amendments on the table. That's where it's ended up. We always knew the National Party and the Greens would end up in the same corner. They don't want a settlement because it doesn't suit their political needs. It's now a question of the Coalition negotiating in good faith.

PETER HARTCHER:

Forget about the Coalition. I mean, one of the arguments for this entire bill is to give investor certainty. Where is certainty for the coal industry and for investors if you can't make a guarantee?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

Certainty will come out of the final resolution of these matters in the Senate. That's exceptionally important to me as Minister for Energy because I need an investment horizon. I've got it this week in renewable energy. I want the price in carbon determined because I need to bring forward investment which goes to base load energy in Australia so as to ensure energy security. We have to negotiate and resolve these issues.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

Minister, a viewer, Melanie from Meadowbank in NSW asks: "Do you believe the Government's global warming strategies will have any serious effect on our region's environment or will they just make industry moguls richer?"

MARTIN FERGUSON:

They certainly won't make industry moguls richer. We will do what we can in terms of our own emissions but, more importantly, we are part of a major debate internationally at the moment on technology, such as the establishment of the Global Carbon Capture and Storage Institute which is very important not only for coal-fired power stations but also the development of the energy industry. Putting in place technology is not only important to Australia. Take the issue of the growth in coal-fired power stations in China. If we resolve this issue, then we are making a major impact internationally, in the same way in which we are putting a real, significant amount of money into R&D on renewable energy.

ALISON CARABINE:

Minister, on the Gorgon gas deal, the Government has recognised the bountiful value of exporting gas to the rest of the world. Will there be enough gas for the domestic sector? Will Australian consumers also benefit from the resource?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

The Gorgon gas development also includes a commitment to additional domestic gas in Australia. So in each one of these projects, we're not only looking at our export opportunities but also domestic opportunities. By way of information, I'm also working closely with BHP Billiton and the Western Australian Government on a domestic gas opportunity called the Macedon Field. That's a $1 billion investment and I hope to achieve that in the next 6 to 12 months.

PETER HARTCHER:

There's another energy sector of course which can contribute to the solution and you've said that the nuclear industry will be part of the global low carbon future. So where will be its part in Australia's low carbon future?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

Well, in Australia's low carbon future, we are an energy-rich nation. Coal, LNG and renewables.

ALISON CARABINE:

And uranium.

MARTIN FERGUSON:

And we are a major uranium-exporting nation and it's my intention to actually increase our uranium exports because other countries, unlike Australia, are not energy rich. They want nuclear power. It is part of the clean energy mix beyond Australia.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

Well, Mr Ferguson, on Wednesday, the Liberal member for Kalgoorlie was thrown out of Parliament for being disruptive after he was fed up with Labor's boasting about the Gorgon gas deal although he was a little confused over who was responsible for the outcome.

[CLIP]

PAUL BONGIORNO:

He might have forgotten Ian Macfarlane's name but he does have a point, this is such a huge deal that the Rudd Government was a Johnny-come-lately wasn't it?

MARTIN FERGUSON:

I think you'll find we've actually sat down and pushed the joint venture partners very hard. I've been very rigorous about the concept of use it or lose it but perhaps more importantly, we not only work with business, we've also worked closely with the current Premier, Colin Barnett, and the previous Premier and Deputy Premier Eric Ripper. All I know is I know Ian Macfarlane, I work extremely closely with him because I work with the Liberal Party to get my legislation through the House and the Senate and it's now a challenge to the Liberal Party to sit down with the Government and resolve the CPRS.

PAUL BONGIORNO:

Thank you very much for being with us today, Martin Ferguson.