Joint Press Conference - Policy Transition Group's Reports - Canberra 

21 December 2010

The Hon Martin Ferguson
Minister for Resources and Energy

The Hon Wayne Swan MP
Deputy Prime Minister
Treasurer

Subjects:

Policy Transition Group's reports; Ken Henry

TREASURER:

Look I wanted to say a few words about Ken Henry before I get onto the main subject of the day which Martin and I are here to talk to you about.  I think it’s pretty fair to say that Ken Henry has served Australia with great distinction, not just over the past three years but over almost three decades.  I congratulate him on the role that he has played, the crucial role that he has played in securing 20 years of continuous economic growth in our country and on a personal level I thank him for his advice.  I thank him for his integrity.  I especially thank him for his composure and his professionalism during the global financial crisis which became a global recession and which was the most significant economic event in living memory.  In my view his experience, his service over almost 30 years does entitle him to being ranked alongside the greats like Nugget Coombs.  It’s pretty rare to be acknowledging the service of someone as a Federal Departmental Head who has served for 10 years.  It happened, but it doesn't happen all that frequently and he has served at a time which was very testing and of course he began during that great reform period working on our national policies.  So the Government certainly wishes him all the best. 

He will be replaced by Dr Martin Parkinson who is a very capable public servant.  A public servant who has had senior experience, particularly in the Treasury over many years.  I like to think of the Treasury as the powerhouse of the Government, Ken worked with both Peter Costello and myself closely in the Treasury, and of course Martin Parkinson will be someone who can only go onto further enhance the role that the Treasury plays in our system of Government.

Now I just want to turn to the PTG report.  I’ll say a few words and then I’ll throw to Martin.  Now, as you know the PTG group was set up to look at a number of technical design elements of the mining tax – the MRRT – and to provide for a smooth implementation of these new resource tax arrangements.  I think you could all agree from reading the report that it has made important progress and of course it builds on the breakthrough agreement that the Prime Minister made with the mining companies some months ago.  It’s really heartening from my perspective to see that the industry wants to play a role, a constructive role in investing more of the proceeds of the mining boom in a stronger and broader economy.  These are very significant reforms and I believe they have been further strengthened by the industries input through the PTG process.

So this report has been the product of extensive consultation.  I think there’s been something like 80 formal submissions.  A very significant number of consultations right across the country and I think Martin has attended all of those.  I want to take this opportunity to thank all of the participants in that process – the companies, the people on the committee.  They’ve put in an enormous amount of hard work and I know Minister Ferguson has been very much at the core of that.  I want to thank everyone for their constructive approach to this process because what we’ve seen is people working together.  I particularly like to thank the Chairman, Don Argus, for the role that he has played.

The Government will consider very carefully all of the recommendations in this report and respond early next year.  So I don't intend to endorse or reject every recommendation today but I can say this, there is a lot of commonsense in this report.  A lot of commonsense in these recommendations and of course there will be further conversations that will need to be had firstly, and foremost, but also with the resources sector, the states, before we will respond formally.  And we of course will continue to work closely with experts in the industry as we prepare the draft legislation and we are following up with an implementation group which is also one of the recommendations in the report. 

Now, of course, I just want to say a couple of things about the royalty issue because there has been extensive discussion about this so it’s worthwhile touching on just briefly.  Now, like all of the recommendations we’ll take our decisions on the treatment of royalties through our usual cabinet process and of course as I said in this room yesterday, we’ll talk to the states.  And we’ve made the point all the way through this that we can’t give a green light for the states to increase royalties endlessly.  The PTG and the mining companies agree with that as you’ll see from reading the report.  Nobody wants to tilt the balance from our profit based tax towards inefficient royalties.  That wouldn’t be in the interests of our country and it certainly wouldn't be in the interests of industry.  So what the PTG has said is that governments need to put in place arrangements to limit incentives that states have to increase royalties over time.  So we will approach all of these discussions in a constructive way.  We’ve had a lot of commentary throughout the year about the MRRT.  I think all of that commentary underscores one very key fact and that is this: that this type of reform is absolutely critical to the future strength and prosperity of our country.  Through this reform we are funding very important investments in infrastructure particularly in our mining regions.  We’re providing funds for an historic boost in superannuation.  An historic boost to national savings, and of course tax cuts for Australian businesses so they can compete strongly.

Now it’s not just about getting a better return for the Australian people for the resources that they own, it’s about making sure that our economy is in a stronger position to deal with all of the challenges and all of the opportunities that can flow from Mining Boom Mark II.  Now, of course in that context is has been a bruising debate.  The Government always thought it would be a bruising debate.  When you are asking some of the most profitable companies in the country to pay a bit more tax you expect a robust debate.  But I think the report today shows that we can, working together, produce results for our country and what we have produced through this report is a result that is the national interest, but it has been hard fought and of course it has, as I said before, it’s been bruising.  The point I want to make about that is that when you going to put in place important reforms for the future you’ve got to persevere with them.  They don’t come easily.  In that 20 years of economic growth, of continuous economic growth I was talking about before, many of the key reforms on which it has been built didn't come easily.  The PRRT did not come easily.  Bringing down the tariff wall did not come easily.  But what governments must do in these circumstances no matter how bruising the debate, is continue to pursue the national interest.  So I’m a big believer in reforms like this and I’m passionate about them because what it can do is ensure as we go forward, that we continue to be a prosperous nation that is capable of meeting the challenges which are thrown up by something as fundamental as Mining Boom Mark II, which brings with it very substantial structural change in our economy.  Over to Martin.

FERGUSON:

Firstly, thank you. On behalf of the PTG today, I presented the Treasurer with two reports. One obviously goes to a new approach to taxation with respect to the minerals and petroleum industries in Australia. The other goes to the issue of exploration.

The objective of the reports is to better inform the Government in terms of decision making as to the final draft of the legislation, which will be presented to the parliament—as the Treasurer said yesterday—in about May of next year.

In approaching the recommendations the PTG sought to ensure that the Government was presented with a balanced report. There were significant consultations around Australia and many, many submissions that were received by the PTG and properly considered. When you go to the report you will see that the PTG has actually sought to answer some of the questions and propositions advanced in those submissions, and I might say public consultations, with a view to actually getting the recommendations right.

I suppose in many ways we sought to ensure that we would present a report that gave the Government the opportunity to put in place a significant reform in terms of the taxation of commodities that are doing exceptionally well from the point of view of Australia at the moment.

The report effectively gives us the launching pad to establish a new approach to taxation that guarantees Australia, as a nation, a fair return for the one-off opportunity it gets to develop its resources.

At the same time, and importantly, it maintains our competitiveness as a nation and that is central to the recommendations of the PTG. In terms of that I want to deal with a few facts because this goes to the heart of the approach by the PTG and where the Government goes forward in terms of international competitiveness. It also goes to the proper consideration of where we go to on the issue of royalties in the future.

The latest survey of business investment shows that the mining companies are planning to invest $55 billion in this financial year. We now have certainty to enable further investment to continue in the future based on these recommendations.

To put this into perspective that is more than five times the level of mining investment being undertaken six years ago before the boom took off.

Perhaps more importantly, underpinning these impressive mining figures, I might say, has been the number of major new mining projects. In fact since May alone we have seen the announcement of $33 billion worth of new investment in mining projects in Australia.

For instance, actual investment rose by 15.6 per cent in the September quarter and plans for investment this year have actually risen by over $6 billion since the start of the year. That’s a very impressive investment pipeline for Australia in the minerals and petroleum sector.

The recommendations that are now before the Government in the PTG’s report basically say that industry now has certainty. We have filled out the detail for the purpose of finalising the legislation eventually presented to parliament. And that was top of mind, from the point of view of the PTG in implementing the principles which were presented to it as a result of the agreement of the 1st of July. So the role of the PTG was to fill out those broad principles and to make very firm recommendations that now enable Treasury and the Australian Tax Office to go forward in the drafting of the legislation.

Importantly, the report also brings to the attention of the Government the need to ensure that during the drafting of the legislation we continue to consult industry.

The Treasurer has very clearly indicated his support today for a reference group which will include representatives of industry to make sure that we properly consult on the finer details of the legislation, which I might say are complex in nature. We want to get it right in the first instance in terms of the detail of the legislation that will be eventually presented as an explanatory draft.

On the issue of royalties, which has been very topical, I just make this point: the report indicates full crediting but it also very squarely puts before state and territory governments and the Commonwealth that you’ve got a very competitive minerals and petroleum taxation regime in Australia now on the basis of this proposal. It would be wrong for any state or territory government to further consider increasing royalties.

The report also makes the point that from the minerals and petroleum sectors’ point of view a profits based system is a more appropriate approach to the minerals and petroleum taxation in Australia.

It therefore sends a message to all of us that we have a responsibility at a Commonwealth, state and territory level to live by the outcome of what is currently before the Government for the purposes of legislation. It is a system made up of base royalties, which gives a revenue stream to state and territory governments, and a system which enables the Australian community in times of very good commodity prices to actually reap the benefits of commodity prices from a profit point of view.

I think there is also a message to industry that you also have the capacity, and a requirement, to defend this package. You have negotiated very hard and it has been a very bruising way to actually get this outcome. In my opinion we all have to live with it because it is the best possible outcome. It means that we get a fair return for the development of our resources and industry can go forward.

We also sought in the implementation to pay proper attention to small and medium sized companies. For example, we have looked at the $50 million threshold and we go forward from $50 to $100 million with a phased application of the changes in taxation. And a variety of other changes aimed at assisting small businesses with respect to the requirements of an administrative nature.

On the issue of exploration, the PTG has not found a market failure. There is a pipeline of exploration, especially brownfields opportunities in Australia, which reflects the nature of commodity prices. It does find that, in the opinion of the PTG, that there are regulatory barriers at a state and territory level that undermine exploration in Australia because they actually create hurdles and represent a significant cost of doing business from the point of view of exploration in Australia. It is therefore appropriate that the Government consider a Productivity Commission reference to bring these issues to a head. It’s no different to what I did in terms of the petroleum industry and regulatory reform soon after becoming the Minister, just on three years ago. You actually focus the minds of state and territory governments on their own problems with respect to regulatory reform and access to exploration opportunities in Australia.

I’d also say that the report very strongly recommends that the Government continue to support Geoscience Australia, which I might say is an agency that I have responsibility for. They actually found that the pre-competitive work, in terms of the expenditure of taxpayers’ money, is very, very valuable from an industry perspective and right across the board there was absolute support across the minerals and petroleum industry for the work of Geoscience Australia.

So I simply say that I think the PTG has done a mammoth task. We have gone out of our way to consult and reflect industry’s views in our final recommendations. I suppose we have nipped and tucked the recommendations to make sure there is a proper balance.

More importantly, every member of the PTG is fully supportive of this report and that reflects a lot of views across the minerals and petroleum industry, with significant standing and experience in the sectors.

It is now our responsibility to actually consider it as a Government and I simply say to the PTG and especially the Secretariat who are here today, they have done a lot of hard work in drafting. I think it has been a process that has produced a quality outcome that will serve Australia well from a taxation point of view and an investment point of view.

JOURNALIST: Treasurer and Minister, I put it to you that there is no certainty in this in so far as you have not resolved the (inaudible) between royalties and the MRRT so how will you do that?  Will you go and ask the Premiers and Chief Ministers to change the 1999 GST agreement or will you use legislation to change the way the Commonwealth grants Commission divvies up the GST?
TREASURER: I’ll just begin to answer that question in a couple of ways.  The first way is that first of all we will talk to our cabinet colleagues about this.  I’ve made that point at the very beginning.  But when we provided our initial response to Henry on the 2nd May I made the point in the press conference then that this would require us talking to the states:  “In terms of the states, we’ll reach agreement with the states.  I think we’ve indicated in the documentation that some of the states are currently planning increases in their royalties and that will be incorporating their own arrangements with the states.  As we move on how we handle that challenge will be a matter of negotiation between us and the states.”  There’s nothing new about that and nothing has changed in all of that.  We will work through the issues with the states.  That’s what we intend to do.  That has been the position since the 2nd May.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible)
TREASURER: But I will go through.  I think there is a fair bit of business certainty and I will just, I’ll throw to Martin in one second.  You shouldn't assume that it’s just easy for the states to walk out there and flick the switch on royalties.  There’s been very substantial revisions of royalties across the two major mining states in the past six to nine months, very substantial changes to royalties.  In one of those states it’s very hard for the state government to flick the switch and put the royalties up without the agreement of companies.  In another state, there has been a complete revision of their royalties.  I don't believe the state governments are going to go down a road where they make the industry uncompetitive in that environment.  I don't believe they’re going to do that.  But yes there does need to be a discussion with the states, always is, particularly when we get together through COAG.  And I’d just like to quote the report – as Martin reflected the sentiment but I think it’s important that we just bare this in mind:  “Equally the MRRT should not be used as a mechanism to enable states and territories to increase inefficient royalties on the MRRT taxable commodities.  Accordingly the PTG also recommends the Australian state and territory Governments put in place arrangements to ensure that state and territory governments do not have an incentive to increase royalties on coal and iron ore.”  That’s the recommendation.
JOURNALIST: Treasurer, is it fair to say that it sounds like Minister Ferguson and the industry, if all the people on the panel were all in agreement with this report, it sounds like you’re half way to getting the reform that you want in that the sector, the industry is at least on the launchpad. But isn’t it that the real problem for you is the blue you’re going to have to have with the states to deliver this, and how confident are you that you’ll be able to?
TREASURER: Well, as I said before, reforms such as this always require federal governments to persevere and we will, but I think we’re a long way down that road actually, to secure the agreement of a significant section of the industry for a resource rent tax on coal and iron ore is a very, very substantial achievement.  A very substantial achievement and we will go through the process of drafting the legislation and we will go through talking with the states.
JOURNALIST: They’ve made it pretty clear that they’re not interested in giving up any money.  So, I mean (inaudible)
TREASURER: They’re not currently being asked to give up any money at all.  So let’s just get the facts right.
FERGUSON:

I think it is incumbent on not just the Commonwealth but all state and territory governments to have regard to this report. This report sends a message to all of us. We have a system of minerals and petroleum taxation in Australia that we can all live with. Industry has signed off on all of these recommendations, not just me. I am but one member of a committee of seven. They basically said that we can have a system that means we can maintain our competitive position internationally which is very important.

They have also sent a message to all of us: no more. From a royalty point of view they are inefficient. They actually favour a profits based taxation system. So they sent a message not only to the Commonwealth but to state and territory governments of all political persuasions: have regard to your competitiveness in the future because you want a pipeline of investment, you want prosperity, you want jobs. Don’t sell it down the line.

TREASURER: I just want to add to that.
JOURNALIST: But -
TREASURER: That’s okay, we’ll do it all.  We’ll do it in order that’s fine.  I just want to add to that because it was no accident that the first and most significant recommendation for action from the Henry Report was the recommendation of a Resource Rent Tax.  And of course we announced this as our response to the emerging challenges for Mining Boom Mark II and those challenges are as great in our great mining states as they are in the states that are not as dependent upon mining.  So there is a national interest being pursued here and that is the macroeconomic objective of making sure we as a country respond to this boom which is producing a two-speed or three-speed, or a four-speed economy in some states.  And what we’re proposing to do in responding to that is to work with state governments, as we have to when it comes to critical areas such as infrastructure, because if we don't work together the challenges that are flowing from Mining Boom Mark II will be very substantial in terms of their implications.  So there’s a wider imperative here than just demotion of where the royalty regime goes, it’s where our economy goes in the future which is the reason that this was recommended because we as a country do face very big challenges and this is part of the structural response to those structural challenges in our economy.  And from our point of view that’s why we’re so passionate about this and so determined to deal with these issues but federal/state issues are never easy.  As long as I’ve been in politics Matthew, and as long as you’ve been reporting politics there’s always been issues about whether state governments will agree to this or that.  At the end of the day it gets worked out.
JOURNALIST: Isn’t that why Dr Henry recommended abolishing state royalties in the first place?
TREASURER: It is, because they are inefficient and what we have reached here is an agreement with the industry on the path ahead.  We couldn't get that far but we’ve got a way forward and it’s a way forward that works for the country.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible) reforms for the states to encourage them to abolish their royalties.  Instead you’ve just chosen for a quick revenue cash grab instead of trying to negotiate –
TREASURER: I absolutely reject that.  I reject this notion that this is some quick revenue cash grab.  It is no such thing. It is a resource rent tax. It is a very substantial reform of our taxation system and it achieves the objectives which go to the core of the report that we receive, which is not only for Australians to get a fair return for their mineral wealth but to use the proceeds of that to lower taxation for other companies that are in the slower lane caused by the two-speed and three-speed economy to respond to the infrastructure demands, particularly in the great mining regions whether it’s in the northwest of Western Australia or Mackay or Gladstone or the great mining regions in Queensland, that’s what we’re doing.  It’s a fundamental reform and the achievement here is that this group which Martin has been a part of has reached a consensus and I think that’s substantial.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible) states or do you think you’ll have to come in and put in some sort of legislation or punishment for them if they don’t live up to the promise –
TREASURER: I have absolutely no intention of pre-empting any of that.  None whatsoever.  We will work our way through these issues as we’ve been working our way through the issues of health reform.  We’ll work our way through.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible)
TREASURER: I’m not ruling anything in or out.  I mean, to begin with we will secure the agreement of our colleagues and we’ll have a discussion with them about this report and all of its recommendations, the [94] of them.  And then we’ll move on and we’ll continue talking to the industry because there’s just a wider challenge here, a wider challenge of which this is an important part of a much more comprehensive response to the challenges that we as a nation face in responding to Mining Boom Mark II.
JOURNALIST: Colin Barnett’s already said he won’t talk to you in terms of mining and if you can’t get a discourse going with Colin Barnett how are you going to deal with –
TREASURER: You know I’ve been around for a long time.  I grew up and cut my teeth in politics when Joh Bjelke-Petersen said he wouldn't talk to anybody.
JOURNALIST: Nobody understood him.
TREASURER: You’re saying he’s making as much sense?  Anyway the point is this: look we will have state premiers as you have from time to time, heaven forbid sometimes even Labor state premiers decide that they want to pursue a point of view.  There’s nothing unique about that it happens all of the time.  What we’re going to do is what Federal Governments have always done of both political persuasions is get on with it, sort it out and work our way through the issues.
JOURNALIST: Treasurer, what are the specific mechanisms the Commonwealth has at its disposal in order to persuade the states not to increase royalties.  You’ve mentioned infrastructure, the Commonwealth invests millions of dollars in infrastructure.  Is that a mechanism?  Is it grants to the states?
TREASURER: There’s literally dozens of mechanisms where we interact with the states but I don't want to in what is going to be a genuine negotiation and discussion -- I don't know whether we’ll get an outcome -- but a genuine discussion we want any of these issues pre-empted. We’ll just get on with it and do it.  There’s a lot of political positioning that goes on in these discussions just as there has been a pretty bruising debate about this with industry, but our job is to progress it and I’m not going to pre-empt any of that.
FERGUSON: Well I also think there is a message from industry to the state and territory governments: we’ve got a taxation system we can live with and we will continue to invest in Australia. If you willy nilly continue to jack up state royalties then there are other areas that we can invest. So there is a message to all of us: you create a system that is good for Australia. Don’t throw it out because we can all win under this proposal.
JOURNALIST: Pardon the analysis gentlemen, but we’re you (inaudible) you’ve been talking about is moral pressure on states to recognise a greater national interest.  Well, their particular interest might be that without this royalty stream, I mean the interest in what their share of the national dollar goes down and –
TREASURER: Sorry, you obviously don't quite know the detail of horizontal fiscal equalisation so I’ll just take you through some of them.
JOURNALIST: (Inaudible)
TREASURER: Well, let’s talk about it.  Let’s talk about it.  The fact is when they jacked their royalties up, the GST they get back gets less.  That’s actually what happens.
JOURNALIST: Well, but what I’m saying is however, that then is with the Commonwealth Grants Commission formula states like WA, each share is going further and further back.  Now why wouldn't they be very keen to pursue keeping royalties as they are because they know that the value of the money that they get back in GST is decreasing?
TREASURER: For all of the reasons that Minister Ferguson has just outlined and I think they’re pretty powerful.  That they are a real factor but I don't intend to keep pre-empt what they do or they don't do.  Western Australia has come down considerably after 30 of the last 40 years however they were beneficiaries of that process, very substantial beneficiaries of that process just like my home state – a great mining state – has over many, many years been a beneficiary of the taxes paid by people in Victoria and New South Wales.  So there are legitimate issues here and I acknowledge they are legitimate but they are dealt with through a COAG process.  There is an inter-governmental agreement where these matters are sorted out.  Where all the premiers also have a say.  So it doesn't matter what scenario you wish to create or posit here ultimately these matters are finally determined through that process.
FERGUSON: Just remember this too: you are talking about states wanting to potentially increase royalties over time. The best way for state and territory governments to actually concentrate on spending the royalty revenue stream from mining is to actually focus on new investments because we’re going to substantially increase our capacity.

If you look at the previous decade that’s why we need to be absolutely focused on infrastructure. We actually lost market share on iron ore and coal because we failed to face up to the fundamentals to invest in the skilling of Australia and infrastructure.

We have a huge capacity actually to increase state and territory royalties at the moment by just getting it right in terms of facilitating investment and expanding capacity, be it on iron ore or coal and, I might say, just take LNG. We’re about the fifth largest producer now and within five to ten years we are going to be the second largest producer. Not just a west coast, Northern Territory industry but an east coast industry.

From here on in the debate is really about maximising investment opportunities and the return from the development of our resources because the taxation regime we have before us today basically says we got it right from a taxation point of view. A fairer return from the one off opportunity to develop our natural resources, maintain our competitiveness, but more importantly expand the industry and expand the return to the Australian community.
TREASURER: I just want to add to that as well because this is very important.  You might recall that when we presented the budget this year, when we presented our response to the Henry Inquiry a week before, there was a lot of scepticism around that time that somehow the commodity forecasts, the commodity price forecasts were, you know, far too optimistic.  What has happened since then is that they’ve actually gotten stronger, they’ve got stronger.  The figures that Martin talked about before, in the middle of this whole debate, which as we all recognise was a bruising debate, in which a lot of very extreme statements were made by some, investment in the industry has increased by $6 billion to be $55 billion this year.  So there’s going to be a really long and strong pipeline here and that’s why we’ve got to move forward with these sorts of structures and get them right.  This is a very big economic issue for the country and at the end of the day I believe that we will get everybody on the same page, but will that be easy?  It won’t be easy, just like this whole process hasn't been easy.
JOURNALIST: Mr Swan you said before that these things get, you know, you take on the negotiations through COAG in this case and these things get done, it’s not easy, it’s difficult.  But they don't always get done, do they?
TREASURER: Well, sometimes they take a bit of time.
JOURNALIST: We haven’t got the health reforms in Western Australia.  It took 30 years to get (inaudible).
TREASURER: That’s right.
JOURNALIST: How long can -
TREASURER: Well, what I can say is this: that if governments over the last 20 years had put in place fundamental reforms and were opposed they’d given up, well they would never have happened – but they persevered.  And because this Government’s got the national economic interest at heart, because we understand the investment pipeline that we are about to receive, particularly from our region, and because we understand the challenges of Mining Boom Mark II we’re going to persevere and get it right.
JOURNALIST: Mr Swan on Ken Henry.
TREASURER: Yes.
JOURNALIST: Did you at all try to convince him to stay on?
TREASURER: I had a long conversation with Ken Henry about this matter.  Ken Henry and I have had a really close working relationship over the past three years.  I’m not going to talk about the nature of those conversations except to say that it boils down to this – that he’s been there a long time and he wants a break and I reckon you should give him one.

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