E&OE
Subjects: uranium sales to India, same-sex marriage
ALOISI: For more on the historic proposed change of direction for Labor on this contentious issue, Marius Benson is speaking to the Resources Minister, Martin Ferguson.
BENSON: Martin Ferguson, good morning.
FERGUSON: Good morning, Marius.
BENSON: Mr Ferguson, you'd be a happy Resources Minister this morning. You've long wanted this change.
FERGUSON: Because I actually think it's appropriate for Australia.
International practice has changed. We can sell uranium to China and Russia but we can't sell uranium to the largest democracy in the world, India.
We appropriately should reflect in our international policy the approach of many other nations but also recognise that India is an emerging economy. It's one of the 10 largest economies in the world and I might say huge purchasing power. This is not only good in terms of our exports but also exceptionally good in terms of our international relationship with India.
BENSON: That has been your view for a long time but it's not been the party view. Will the party conference next month buy the change?
FERGUSON: I think it's appropriate that the Prime Minister put it on the agenda.
BENSON: With…
FERGUSON: We are a party that has fronted up to many, many difficult challenges in the past and I think we're equal to this challenge because it's about time we accepted that with the Nuclear Suppliers Group decision of 2007 to actually sell uranium to India, countries such as the United States.
We recognise that India is not a rogue state, that they are absolutely focused on trying to extend access to electricity to their huge population, 1.109 billion people, of which I might say 40 per cent have access to fewer than 12 hours electricity per day.
They've got many, many millions of people in poverty and they're committed to lifting those people out of poverty and one of the keys to reducing poverty is access to reliable electricity.
BENSON: But you wouldn't be pretending that Australia is doing India a favour. Kevin Rudd just at CHOGM a couple of weeks ago made the point that India does not rely on Australian uranium for uranium supplies.
FERGUSON: Kevin Rudd reflected the party policy but, yes, India can buy uranium from other countries. But why should we allow our existing long term policy, which is now outdated, to stand in the way of us also having the opportunity to sell uranium to India? But perhaps more importantly, this further normalises our relationship with India, an emerging economy of significant importance in Asia, and in doing so ensures that we treat India consistently with other NNPT countries' approach to this very complex issue.
In essence we are proposing at national conference that we apply the same rules that we apply to other countries. India will have to enter into a bilateral with Australia which goes to the safe handling and use of Australian uranium, only for civil nuclear purposes, that is electricity, and also embrace the additional protocol which guarantees that from an international perspective including international accountability.
BENSON: What's this worth to Australia? About three-quarters of a billion to a billion dollars is the total of our exports at the moment, with uranium. The Financial Review this morning is suggesting India might be worth maybe $1.7 billion in addition. Is that a realistic figure?
FERGUSON: Well I haven't put a value on it. All I can say is that this is about opening up export opportunities for Australia.
But I might also says, from a climate change perspective, having been in India for three days last week, that they are consumed with extending their electricity system and all they wanted to talk to me was about buying more thermal coal and 70 per cent of their energy currently comes from coal-fired power.
I might remind people in the community that nuclear power is clean energy and if people want to reduce emissions then let's start also with India which is absolutely consumed with further strengthening their economy. The growth forecast at the moment for 2011-12 is 7.8 per cent.
Actually enabling India to move further on the nuclear power front enables them to fuel their emerging economy, at the same time reduce CO2 emissions. It's smart economically for Australia and I might also say it's smart globally in terms of reducing CO2 emissions.
BENSON: Let me go back to the party conference next month. Will it buy this change? Because the Prime Minister has put her authority on the line. Her standing would be demolished if the party were to reject such a strong stand by the leader.
FERGUSON: At every national conference the party's had to front up to difficult decisions. I remind you that as Leader of the Opposition in 2007 Kevin Rudd - Kevin Rudd had responsibility, not as Prime Minister, as Leader of the Opposition, of taking on the party and doing away with our outdated three mine uranium mining policy.
We are now a major export country, one of the three countries with the biggest known reserves in the world. This is an extension of that, a modernisation of Labor Party policy both in the uranium mining and in terms of our international engagement. In my opinion the party will back the leadership of the Prime Minister just like they backed Kevin Rudd in 2007.
We must front up to tough decisions, we always have as a Party and, in my opinion, we will on this occasion.
BENSON: How can you guarantee this uranium from Australia wouldn't be used in weapons or, if not directly used in weapons, free up other uranium in India for use in weapons?
FERGUSON: Let's be frank. India is not focused on nuclear weapons. They are focused on the challenge of a huge population that has the same aspirations that we do as a community, to a higher standard of living. They are not prepared to accept that 40 per cent of their people only have electricity for less than 12 hours per day. They're not prepared to accept they've got purchasing power for a lot of their community with 70 per cent less than 35 years of age yet many, many of them absolutely live in poverty.
These are the challenges that confront India. That's why they're modernising their economy. It's up to nations such as Australia to join them halfway.
They are not a rogue nation. We say to India, yes, it's appropriate that you cooperate with Australia, for example, on defence, customs, combating international terrorism, air service agreements but, at the same time, we don't trust you to ensure that our uranium is used for peaceful purposes. Well, Australia can't have its cake and eat it too.
BENSON: Martin Ferguson, in the newspaper column where Julia Gillard has outlined this change in policy towards India she's also outlined a change in policy on gay marriage. She remains opposed to gay marriage but she says Labor MPs will have a conscience vote on it.
If you're given a conscience vote, how would you vote on gay marriage?
FERGUSON: No, it's not appropriate that you canvass individual views at the moment. The real decision the Party has to make is saying to the Party that when this comes before any state or federal parliament that individual Labor Party members will have a conscience vote. This is the way we've always handled these complex social issues, be it on abortion, questions of euthanasia or whatever.
BENSON: But you know your view. You know your view, Mr Ferguson. Can I simply ask you what your conscience dictates?
FERGUSON: Well I'll tell you what's a difficult situation at the moment. For smart alec reasons earlier this year the Greens suggested that we consult the electorate, as if we never do.
Well, the feedback from my electorate is that I shouldn't vote for this change in policy which might in actual fact be contrary to my personal view so I'm now in a very difficult position. Do I actually do what I think is appropriate or do I embrace the decision of the Parliament which was to consult and act in accordance with the view of my electorate? But the real issue is basically saying to each of us, there's no Party decision, you'll vote according to how you determine it.
Now I think a lot of people are going to vote, according to the consultation with their electorate and the very direct feedback they received.
BENSON: Martin Ferguson, thanks very much for your time this morning.
FERGUSON: Thank you.
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